Is your definition of success overdue for a makeover? Which new metrics can you use to define what success looks and feels like to you? Can you imagine success not as vertical but rather as linear and continuous?
In this podcast episode, Jennifer Froemel speaks about how success isn’t a ladder; it’s a landscape.
In This Podcast:
Letting go of old identities
Inherited definitions of success
Understanding internal metrics
Reflections on outgrowing success
Letting go of old identities
Our old identities can easily keep us stuck. They can hold us back from feeling integrated in our current reality, making it harder for us to recognize our successes in real life, and making us feel stuck or out of place.
When we reassess and address our identity, how we see and relate to ourselves and the world around us, as can get rid of the unwanted, unnecessary, and outdated struggles that we sometimes accidentally carry around with us for too long.
There is, of course, a type of grief that we need to mourn when it comes to letting go of these old identities.
At this point in life, do you still need to be the person who’s fighting “the good fight?” … Is this the life you wanted for yourself? For many of us, the answer is, “No, I don’t always want to walk through life fighting” … So I want to let go of some of that old identity … and I get to choose how I show up now.
Jennifer Froemel
Inherited definitions of success
The way that you view your life, what you do well, and what you could do better; are these your metrics that you have specifically come up with, based on your values, to measure your life?
Or are you using the definitions of success that have come from your family, parents, or peers to make sense of your life?
We can ask ourselves, “What feels fulfilling now?” Which parts of your life feel full, not just busy? Do you feel full because you have a good partnership? Do you feel your life is full because you have kids … because you get to see your family often? … What is it that makes you feel fulfilled?
Jennifer Froemel
Understanding internal metrics
Based on your values, principles, and personality, there will be things that are unique to you that you value, and that when they are present in your life, you feel grateful and peaceful.
Keep track of these aspects, as some of the metrics you can use to measure how successful you are in building out the life you want to live, because remember, your life is yours.
What is your joy? What is your peace? How are you living congruently? … I look at the things I know I need.
Jennifer Froemel
Reflections on outgrowing success
So, Jennifer’s suggestion of viewing success as a landscape is because you are then not viewing success as something that you have externally seen, but as a feeling that you are living internally.
It is not a visible thing that you climb to reach the top, like a ladder, but instead a landscape that you get to walk through and experience daily.
What version of success are you ready to outgrow? And what vision feels more honest now than it ever has before?
Change can be scary, but it doesn’t have to be. The Fear of Change podcast is all about helping you embrace change and live a more fulfilling life. Hosted by Jennifer Froemel, LCPC, a therapist with nearly 30 years of experience, we cover topics like mental wellness, holistic health, and improving relationships.
Jennifer’s down-to-earth approach makes it easy to understand why we fear change and how to move past those fears. Whether you’re dealing with anxiety, relationship issues, or just feeling stuck, there’s something here for you.
Podcast Transcription
Jennifer Froemel 00:00:00 The Fear of Change podcast is part of the practice of the Practice Network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like the Sensitive in Nature podcast, go to practice of the Practice Network. Welcome to the Fear of Change podcast. I’m your host, Jennifer Cromwell, a therapist dedicated to helping you challenge your perspective. See, fear is only one option and discover that finding yourself is a lot of work, but totally worth it. In each episode, we’ll explore the depths of change, uncovering strategies to embrace it with confidence and resilience. So get ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and transformation. Let’s face our fears together and find the courage to create the life we truly desire. Thank you for joining me. Welcome to the Fear of Change podcast. I’m Jennifer from all your host, and I’m so excited to cover this topic today. probably first and foremost, because I oftentimes like to look at what does success mean for people. And I also love beautiful landscapes.
Jennifer Froemel 00:01:29 And as you see in the title, success isn’t a ladder. It’s a landscape. And ultimately, this is about rethinking how how we see achievement. I think so many people have talked about the hustle. And I want to talk about how we go from hustle to wholeness. you know, especially in midlife. And, you know, when we’re when we’re climbing the ladder, when we’re in our 20s, it’s a bit different. And usually in our 20s it’s it’s success is you have landed right. You are here and it’s it’s proving that you know what you’re talking about. But in our 40s and 50s, it’s about aligning with who we’ve wanted to become. And it’s not about climbing some ladder of success, it’s creating a life. And again, for many people these days, in their 40s, they might be parenting younger kids. Since our population of people tend to be having kids, you know, much later in life, like more in the 30s. So in your 40s, it’s like you’re you’re if you’re still struggling with, you know, parenting simultaneously with employment, and a career Specifically.
Jennifer Froemel 00:02:57 It’s it’s it’s a real challenge. You know, call kind of like double running it if you think of a ladder. Right. It’s like you’ve got one ladder for your career on one side and one ladder on the other side of like parenthood. And you know, how are you doing that? How are you able to climb both? And that’s where I came up with this concept of, of of it being more of a landscape, being it more of that, you know, beautiful vista that you, you know, want to see when you’re on vacation, you know, on a beach in Mexico or Hawaii, or that beautiful mountain range that you say, you know, see, in the Tetons, when you’re about to go horseback riding on your vacation west. Right? It’s really about creating a life for yourself and really about making sure that the old stuff that you used to walk in the room with, I had a colleague who? I was like girlfriend. Every time you walk in the room, you are walking in with a giant.
Jennifer Froemel 00:04:03 I’m not even calling a chip. A brick on your shoulder. And it’s so important to recognize that you don’t need to do that anymore, right? And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, it’s pretty clear to me that everybody, when you walk in this room, they they see you, they acknowledge you. They don’t say like, oh, man, I hate her. She’s no good. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Right? but our, our biggest judge in our head thinks those thoughts. so there is something about kind of the unspoken grief of letting go of those old identities, right? again, coming up in the south side of Chicago, you know, being South Side is is is like a I don’t know. it’s very I wouldn’t call it prestigious, but it’s it’s, it’s it’s in a it’s a, it’s a thing. And by being a thing, what I mean by that is if, if everybody knows that you’re from the South Side, they kind of expect that you’re going to be rough and tumble.
Jennifer Froemel 00:05:16 They’re going to expect that you’re not some, you know, precious little flower that’s super dainty and can get crushed real easy. You know, they’re they’re going to expect that you’re going to hold your own. You’re going to talk whatever you need to talk about. Right. And you’re not going to be afraid, I think is probably one of the big things about South Siders. But the thing is, is in this point in life, you know, do you do you still need to be the person who’s fighting the good fight, right? Fighting the fight for the South Siders? I don’t know. Is that the life you’ve wanted for yourself. And again, I think for many of us the answer is no. I don’t want to always walk through life fighting, right? Yes. If I need to fight, I will. But I don’t want to always walk through life fighting. So I want to maybe let go of some of that old identity from my Southside self of, you know, I don’t want to walk around fighting and I get to choose how do I show up now? I get to choose.
Jennifer Froemel 00:06:24 How do I think I’m enough? Is it being enough when I’m not going to? Every single thing, but I’m going to the things that I want to go to. I’m attending to myself and healing and managing myself and then putting a putting a priority on the things that are making me, in my opinion, enough. So I have to look in that way. We have to look at who’s success was I chasing? So I ask you all to think about it. Think about maybe your inherited definitions of success. I can give you some of mine or my clients. you know, success meant having a lot of money. A lot of money. What does that mean? I don’t know. Operationalize that. Does it mean being a millionaire? Does it mean that you make six figures for your salary? Reflect on that. And is that your definition, or is it somebody else’s? I had a client who really wanted to be a teacher. Loved. Loved learning about history and sharing it. they oftentimes down put themselves by saying like, I know it’s stupid nonsense.
Jennifer Froemel 00:07:52 I’m like, no, it’s really interesting. It’s interesting to learn history of things. We learn from our history. We learn from our mistakes. But their mom told them, you’re not going to like being a teacher. You can’t be a teacher. What about a doctor? What about a lawyer? Right. Some prestigious position. So they went for it. They went to be a lawyer. They graduated. They hated it. They didn’t know who they were, right? So a lot of times people are like, I want a doctorate. I want to be called doctor. and and I have a clinician presently who, who went through all the schooling and now has to do post doc hours of supervision. And the more she sat and thought about it, she thought, well, if I finish this all the way through. What do I get? Okay, sure. I get to be called a doctor, but what do I get? Well, I could work at a university, but I don’t want to work at a university.
Jennifer Froemel 00:09:02 So she started to recognize that the milestones that she had initially aligned with weren’t hers. They were her families. And again, we’ve talked many times in this podcast about how our families shift us. Right. But the reality is, is in her case, luckily she was able to identify it. So so we ask ourselves what feels fulfilling? Now you know what parts of your life feel full? Not just busy, you know. Do you feel full because you have a good partnership? Do you feel your life is full because you have kids? Do you feel full because you get to see your family every Saturday or every Sunday? And when you come together, it doesn’t feel like nails on a chalkboard and like you got to run out of there. Do you feel full because you get to read your favorite books? You get to go and walk with your friend Judy, right? And and you get to have your dog sit on your lap when you watch a movie. What is it that makes you feel fulfilled? And again, for some of us.
Jennifer Froemel 00:10:20 It could in fact be our work life. It could be that that contribution that we make societally that really, really fills us. But the idea of looking at your own internal metrics, what is your joy? What is your peace? How are you living congruent. So in in my own structure of my own work life around, you know, how do I feel fulfilled? I look at what are the things that I know I need. I know I want enough water. Clean water. I know I need food, good clean food. I know I need movement. So I look at those very baseline things, much like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. And then from there, I look at what makes me feel good about my work. And what makes me feel good about my work is, in fact, the lives that I get to touch, the people that I get to meet, the the transformations that I get to be a part of. And then on top of that, it’s my family life.
Jennifer Froemel 00:11:40 It’s my life with the people that I’m helping to raise. It’s the life of the people that I get to pet when I watch a movie. It’s the life of, you know, connectedness with my neighbors. It’s being able to give back to my community by donating food, by donating my time at a local food pantry. Those are the things that bring me joy. Participating in the things that I believe strongly in, advocating for, things that I believe strongly in. Those things bring me peace at night to say I didn’t just sit around all day and complain about what’s happening in the world. I participated in trying to get it to change, and then making sure that the way I’m living makes sense to me. I don’t want people thinking that they can’t trust me. I don’t want people thinking that I’m not honest. Right. My four year old self was confronting my dad. I want people to see me for who I am. I want it to be congruent. I don’t want it to be fake.
Jennifer Froemel 00:12:58 You know, who you see in my office is different than who I am in real life. And I think for so many of us, we we we wear masks. We change our hats. Right? And I don’t want that for myself. It causes me difficult time sleeping at night when I can’t just be congruent with who I am. So finally, you know, I want to talk about that. Permission to pivot, that permission to make an alteration in how you operate. You can be proud of who you were back in the day and still want to be more aligned with your judgment, more aligned with your beliefs, Is more aligned with the version of you that you’ve always wanted to be. And and for many of us, that can feel so different, right? Again, for me, the person I’ve always wanted to be is a person that’s trustworthy. A person that can stand up and support people. A person who believes in people. A person who just wants to participate in life and feel good about that participation.
Jennifer Froemel 00:14:15 And now, more than ever, I feel like I’m also listening to what I want. So this idea of the landscape is it’s not just what I’m externally seeing that shows up in my landscape, but it’s also that internal vibe that makes me want to alter my landscape. And and again, I could be speaking metaphorically or physically. Right? But I want what’s inside of me to be reflected outside of me, and vice versa. And so in doing that, it’s so important to recognize that maybe that feels super foreign to you. Maybe you’ve never even thought about that. And so, okay, if you’re a late bloomer, I was a late bloomer in many ways growing up. But I think that we can always reinvent ourselves. I know we can reinvent ourselves. We’re always able to tweak who we are. You know, I think of Madonna, right? Starting off with her oversexualized self. And then over time, that morphed. And she was very into learning about Buddhism and not just putting herself out there from a visual perspective of of this overly sexualized persona.
Jennifer Froemel 00:15:45 But she was learning that it was important for her to live with Buddhist lifestyle. Prince again. Another another great example. You know, when he showed up on the scene, he was a shock jock. You know, he was wearing things that other people weren’t wearing, or he was wearing nothing at all on stage. Right? Red hot chili peppers, just wearing socks. and not on their feet. Right. All of these are examples of people who showed up one way and and they didn’t. They didn’t say apologetically, like, I’m so sorry that that’s who I used to be. You know. Oh, I’m so ashamed of myself. No. It’s called I have reinvented myself and some of those. I’m just letting them go. You know, I. That’s who I was. But the core of who I am still is me. But I’m realizing I don’t have to. Whatever it is, right? I don’t have to be on stage naked or, hey, I want to be on stage naked.
Jennifer Froemel 00:16:53 I’ve always wanted to be on stage naked. What of it? Right. If it’s allowable, I want it. So here’s a thought that if success is a landscape, then rest, joy and pause are part of the terrain. And what I mean by that is, if I am constantly running from thing to thing to thing, and I am never fully present in those things. You know, I go to work, I see people boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I get in my car. I talk to somebody. If I don’t ever give myself a moment just to sit and listen to a song. Read an article. Look at some pictures of cute animals. If I don’t take that pause and take in the joy of watching one of the leaves on my plants, open up ever so softly and be a small little leaf, only to grow so quickly it seems into a large leaf. But the beauty of watching the unfurling. If I didn’t pay attention, I’d miss it altogether.
Jennifer Froemel 00:18:22 And there is simple joy and internal peace. When we are working and living and like and experiencing together. Because all of that is a part of the landscape. The busy, the pause, the crazy overactive, the rest, the sadness, the anger, the frustration and the joy. All of these things are a part of that landscape. And as we’re thinking about like, oh, have I made it, you know, am I, am I achieved? Am I the most successful, the most whole I can be? Right? Don’t look at it from that hustle perspective just by itself. Look at it from the perspective of I used to hustle and now I want to live this more whole life. So I have a reflection for you. What version of success are you ready to outgrow and what vision feels more honest now than it ever has before. So what version of success are you ready to outgrow? And what vision feels more honest now in this part of your life? The 40s and 50s where you’re actually able to be like, whoa, this is so much more of who I am.
Jennifer Froemel 00:19:59 I met my colleague for a conference last week and she said, I said, what are you wearing? And she said, oh, leggings. And I was like, ha ha ha. Right. Sure. She goes, no, I have dress leggings. And then I have my relaxing leggings and then I have my workout leggings. And so we proceeded to share with each other what our outfits were going to look like. And guys she did she had dressed leggings. She had dressed gym shoes. She said I want to show up I want to look nice, but I want to feel nice. I want to feel comfortable. And so again, that idea, she’s like, I’ve outgrown the wearing a dress and heels, or I’ve outgrown wearing the suit and the heels. Right? I want to feel more honest right now than I ever have before. So I’m wearing my leggings. That note, our next time we get together, I’m going to talk about how we structure things with soul. Not, you know, soul like soul the sun, but s o u l how we really look at our systems and making sure that we’re not forgetting a part of ourselves in creating those systems and utilizing the system for control only.
Jennifer Froemel 00:21:30 So again, just ask yourself, what version of success are you ready to outgrow? And what vision feels more honest with you right now? And know that whatever it is you come up with is right for right now. And know that in all these changes, you’re worth it. Thank you so much for joining me. If you have feedback or want to subscribe, go to our website, The Fear of Change podcast and send us a message on our info. email. And if not, subscribe. And, you know, get these downloads more, more rapidly. Rather than having to go look for them, they’ll show up in your inbox. And thank you again and I will see you next time. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Fear of Change podcast. I hope you found today’s discussion enlightening and empowering. Remember, change is inevitable, but how we respond to it is what truly matters. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review and share it with others who might benefit from our conversations.
Jennifer Froemel 00:22:49 Join me next time as we continue to explore new ways to handle change and live our best lives. Until then, I’m Jennifer Brummel, encouraging you to. Face your fears and embrace the journey of self-discovery. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.
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